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Gipsies and Israelin Gipsy, Roma people speak up Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:01 pm
by Lizzy67 • 2.808 Posts
I just discovered a few bits from a Finnish site : https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/8441168/gypsiesisrael
In Finland, travel people are a minority today but having among the best social conditions in Europe.
For Media see https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/medes-media/
I questioned some Gipsies about their origins. To them it's more obvious that most of their ancestors lived in Persia. About Gipsies in India : they never were seen as Hinduists or even not of the lower caste. So a question mark remains about those Gipsies in some part of India : where did they come from ? Because the truth is : there's no single trace of anything Hinduistic in Gipsy traditions, beliefs. Might they have more worshipped a goddess in older days : this was very common in most Ancient pagan traditions before our era.
Thursday, 1 May 2008
I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has any ideas about links between the Gypsies/Romanies and the ten Northern tribes of Israel who disappeared off the map centuries ago. I need some concrete evidence (documents? archaeology?) to back up some of the traditions that have been handed down.
Click 'COMMENTS' just below this if you have any information or to see what others have said before you.
PS. Some interesting websites are out there including this one a friend put me onto: http://www.wallenbergcentre.net/gypsies.php
Posted by Bible Basher at 11:20
Paul Arnold said...
Hi Gerry keep up the Good work, I was at the retreat at Hollybush and a question came up about the lost tribe of Israel. Can you make it clear to your readers, that there was Ten Tribes who whent missing from the Northen Kingdom. The Northern Kingdom (Israel) devided itself from Juda in the South, around 931BC. The Northern Kingdom had Ten tribes and Southern Kingdom consisted of only two Tribes, Benjamin and Juda. However there was also a large nomber of Levites who administered in the Temple at Jerusum in the South. The King of Assyria invaded the Northern Kingdom around 721BC and took captive the Ten Tribes.There is no trace of these peoples recorded from that point. However God himself knows were his people are! and one day will recall them back to Israel.
17 May 2008 15:13
Bible Basher said...
I have some more info from Josephus, Antiquities 9.14.1(279) where he explains where the people went. He simply states that they went to Media and Persia, but that could be anywhere from Egypt to India, but the people transported INTO Samaria came from a place or river called Cuthah so it is possible that the israelites went there. He repeats some of the same info in Antiquities 9.14.3(288) and then explains how the Cutheans called for Levites to return and teach them how to worship the 'god' of their new land because they were having a bad time. This is the beginning of the Samaritan religion. Josephus continues to explain that when the Jews returned later they tried to join them but were rejected.
There is no record of these tribes returning, and I'm not aware of any concrete evidence to say that they are included in the Jews of today (ie Judah, Benjamin and some Levites).
That much is historical and documented. If we know that the Israelites went to Median/Persian lands then they could have been in the area north of India which is where the Gypsies are known to have come from. Its a hole-in-one, but globally it is very close, so could the Gypsies be the ten northern tribes of Israel? What I need is some documentation or evidence. Keep looking.
18 May 2008 17:44
yes they are not lost god knows where the ten tribes are as for the gypsies being part of the the race of the jews, fanciffull to say the least
there is good proof that the gypsies came with the jews when they came out of egypt that would account for the many ways the gypsies have similer ways
laws on cleaning
being outside normal culture
many of the word used
word for GOD [odell] [ell]
many of the customs like covering the windows and mirrors at deaths
there is to many to list
but i think the one that clinches it for me is this there was a town in goshen where the jews were slaves before they came out of egypt [with many other tribes the bible says] the name of the town was sohani the name that the ancient jews had for the gypsies was sohanis
food for thought
number on reason i dont think we are jews is none of the gypsies in the world are being called there but the jews are.
11 June 2008 23:21
Bible Basher said...
but how do you know we are not being called back there? When Judah/Benjamin returned to Jerusalem they did so in stages, so perhaps Rroms will be next? On the other hand there is a revival amongst Gypsies worldwide - could that not be 'God calling' but in a spiritual rather than geographical sense?
12 June 2008 09:29
then if it just spirtualised why are the jews going there geographically and not spiritually? besides that gypsies and jews have words for each other recognising they are different anyway when will you be circumsised [not spiritually]
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RE: Gipsies and Israelin Gipsy, Roma people speak up Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:02 pm
by Lizzy67 • 2.808 Posts
About Media https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/medes-media/
middle land ). Media lay northwest of Persia proper, south and southwest of the Caspian Sea, east of Armenia and Assyria, west and northwest of the great salt desert of Iran. Its greatest length was from north to south, and in this direction it extended from the 32d to the 40th parallel, a distance of 550 miles. In width it reached front about long. 45 degrees to 53 degrees; but its average breadth was not more than from 250 to 300 miles. The division of Media commonly recognized by the Greeks and Romans was that into Media Magna and Media Atropatene.
Media Atropatene corresponded nearly to the modern Azerbijan , being the tract situated between the Caspian and the mountains which run north from Zagros.
Media Magna lay south and east of Atropatene. It contained great part of Kurdistan and Luristan , with all Ardelan and Arak Ajemi . It is indicative of the division that there were two Ecbatanas, respectively the capitals of the two districts. The Medes were a nation of very high antiquity; we find a notice of them in the primitive Babylonian history of Berosus, who says that the Medes conquered Babylon at a very remote period (cir. B.C. 2458), and that eight Median monarchs reigned there consecutively, over a space of 224 years. The deepest obscurity hangs, however, over the whole history of the Medes from the time of their bearing sway in Babylonia, B.C. 2458-2234, to their first appearance in the cuneiform inscriptions among the enemies of Assyria, about B.C. 880. Near the middle of the seventh century B.C. the Median kingdom was consolidated, and became formidable to its neighbors; but previous to this time it was not under the dominion of a single powerful monarch, but was ruled by a vast number of petty chieftains. Cyaxares, the third Median monarch, took Nineveh and conquered Assyria B.C. 625. The limits of the Median empire cannot be definitely fixed. From north to south it was certainly confined between the Persian Gulf and the Euphrates on the one side, the Black and Caspian Seas on the other. From east to west it had, however, a wide expansion, since it reached from the Halys at least as far as the Caspian Gates, and possible farther. It was separated from Babylonia either by the Tigris or more probably by a line running about halfway between that river and the Euphrates. Its greatest length may be reckoned at 1500 miles from northwest to southeast, and its average breadth at 400 or 450 miles. Its area would thus be about 600,000 square miles, or somewhat greater than that of modern Persia. Of all the ancient Oriental monarchies the Median was the shortest in duration. It was overthrown by the Persians under Cyrus, B.C. 558, who captured its king, Astyages. The treatment of the Medes by the victorious Persians was not that of an ordinary conquered nation. Medes were appointed to stations of high honor and importance under Cyrus and his successors. The two nations seem blended into one, and we often find reference to this kingdom as that of the "Medes and Persians." ( Daniel 5:28 ; Daniel 6:8 Daniel 6:12 Daniel 6:15 ) The references to the Medes in the canonical Scriptures are not very numerous, but they are striking. We first hear of certain "cities of the Medes," in which the captive Israelites were placed by "the king of Assyria" on the destruction of Samaria, B.C. 721 ( 2 Kings 17:6 ; 18:12 ) Soon afterward Isaiah prophesies the part which the Medes shall take in the destruction of Babylon, ( Isaiah 13:17 ; 21:2 ) which is again still more distinctly declared by Jeremiah, ( Jeremiah 51:11 Jeremiah 51:28 ) who sufficiently indicates the independence of Media in his day. ch. ( Jeremiah 25:25 ) Daniel relates the fact of the Medo-Persia conquest, ( Daniel 5:25 Daniel 5:31 ) giving an account of the reign of Darius the Mede, who appears to have been made viceroy by Cyrus. ( Daniel 6:1-58 ) In Ezra we have a mention of Achmetha (Ecbatana), "the palace in the province of the Medes," where the decree of Cyrus was found, ( Ezra 6:2-5 ) --a notice which accords with the known facts that the Median capital was the seat of government under Cyrus, but a royal residence only, and not the seat of government, under Darius Hystaspis. Finally, in Esther the high rank of Media under the Persian kings, yet at the same time its subordinate position, is marked by the frequent composition of the two names in phrases of honor, the precedence being in every ease assigned to the Persians.
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